Peter Boyle of Australia’s Green Left spoke to Saleh Muslim, the co-chair of the Democratic Union Party (PYD) in North and East Syria, about the dangerous escalation of military conflicts in the Middle East which he described as the possible beginning of the “Third World War”. The full text from their interview is below.
Thank you for speaking to us today, Comrade Saleh Muslim. The current situation in the region is a very dangerous one, I’m sure you would agree. But what particular dangers does it pose for the Rojava Revolution?
What we are seeing in the Middle East is the Third World War. All the hegemonic powers, as well as other local powers, are on high alert, in the media, and they are fighting each other from time to time. So, it’s a very dangerous situation not only for us but for the entire Middle East. Nobody can guess what’s going to happen because there are many powers and forces, including major powers in the area. So we are also waiting and we are in the middle of this conflict as Syria and the northeast of Syria. So we have to be very careful and even for political relations and all the military sides and so.
The reality is that all these powers are looking for their interests, some of them are looking for them in energy resources such as gas and petroleum or other material wealth in the area. But the problem for us is very different. We are looking for our existence as the Kurdish people, we are trying to have a quiet land, a quiet place without fighting. But of course we cannot simply ask others to stop fighting or to stop their struggles. So, we are waiting and what we can do, we have to prepare ourselves for any worse conditions.
The Syrian conflict has continued for over 13 years without any solution. There is no solution because the local forces like Turkey and Iran and the others have their own plans and the international hegemonic powers, they have their different plans which are affecting each other. Because of that there is no solution and mainly Turkey was in the middle of this conflict and from the beginning the president of Turkey said ‘I am the co-chair of this big Middle East project’. So he was one of those effective forces in this plan because all the others and even NATO depended on him to try to implement the moderate Islam through the Muslim brotherhoods to all the areas. So I think this plan has failed but hasn’t finished yet, they are still trying to do something, I mean, trying to control this chaotic situation now. But Turkey’s aim was to get rid of the Kurdish people, I mean, to finish them, from the beginning, and its a big obstacle in the way of the Syrian political solution and also all of the Kurdish rights.
Kurdish people could resist and stand until now they have kept their existence in the northeast of Syria, and more than that they have their own projects for the solution in Syria which is not acceptable to Turkey, so because of that we are seeing the attacks of Turkey from time to time and even recently they are just getting the opportunity of this conflict to attack the Kurdish areas and Kurdish people and they said many times that they are going to destroy all the infrastructure and make the life difficult. And they are doing so, till now they have done it and we expect from now on they also will get an opportunity for this conflict to do what they like to the Kurdish people.
This, what they call the Islamic State, ISIS, we believe it is kind of a company that everyone has their shares in it, but mostly its directed by Turkey till now and they used it from the beginning until now. They are still using ISIS. Because on a daily basis we are seeing ISIS sleeping cells, they have relations from Turkey, they are getting money, getting weapons and trying to do what they can to destroy this area.
But those attacks are stuff from the behind, from the back, stabbing from the back from Turkey and others. It doesn’t make the Democratic Syrian Forces effective, but they are trying, but the point is when we have organised ourselves, our people and including those legitimate defence for ourselves in 2014, we found this international coalition they said, hey, we can do it together. And we kind of beneficial for both sides. And we agreed to do it and still we are in this agreement, this fight, but what I mean is we had already organised and were defending ourselves and even it was the beginning of defeating Daesh and then they came to us. So, we will keep organising ourselves and we are now stronger than before. And we will resist and try to make peace between all the components of northeast Syria, including the Arabs, Syriacs and others, in order to protect our existence.
The recent drone attack on Deir ez-Zor which killed six members of the Syrian Democratic Forces, was launched by a militia group that is backed by Iran. Does this mean that the Rojava Revolution is somehow being drawn into the current escalation of military conflict around Gaza?
In May 2023 they agreed, I mean, in Astana, those four countries, one of their decisions was to dismantle this democratic self administration in northeast Syria in order to let the Americans go out from here it was a decision or resolution, I mean, by them in May 2023. So since then the attacks never stopped. Turkey has done it and there were attacks through Deir ez-Zor by those tribe units and so on. So all our forces, they have resisted it. What I mean is these attacks, there were happening before Gaza so it’s not related to the Gaza situation.
And of course I mean maybe you have followed, they attacked the place which is a training camp in this oil field and six of our people, I mean Democratic Syrian Forces, they have been killed, I mean, martyred. And of course they have promised that they will take the revenge for them and because our forces mainly are not attackers, they don’t attack anybody but they are able to defend themselves, legitimate defend all the areas until now in the other side of the Euphrates there were some militias, Iranian militias and other sides, and our people never thought to attack them or to dismantle them or to do anything against them till the attacks of course, I mean, our people will retaliate to it.
Has the Democratic Autonomous Administration in North and East Syria made a clear position on the current war between Israel and the Palestinians?
Yeah for the Palestinians I believe of course, the Palestinians have rights, they have their right and there shouldn’t be genocide like what is going on in Gaza. But of course I mean also we look at the Jewish people, they are part of the Middle East, I mean they have rights also, but this mentality by Hamas which is similar to the Daesh mentality, to eradicate the Jewish people, is not correct. I mean, we consider that Hamas is not representing the Palestinian people and also for the Jewish people, because they are trying to eradicate the Palestinians.
I mean Netanyahu’s mentality is also not the solution, they cannot bring a solution. The only way we consider is similar to our project, I mean, a democratic nation state where they can live together or democratic nation states for both sides where they can live together in peace and with dialogue, not by fighting. But this mentality by Hamas and Netanyahu is destroying all the people in the Middle East, I mean the Palestinians and also the Jewish people. So it’s not the right way.
In the 1980s Palestinian and Kurdish Liberation Fighters fought side by side against Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. That was a moment when there was clear solidarity between these two important National Liberation struggles. Will these two struggles once again be seen as working in solidarity with each other right throughout the region?
Of course I mean we respect the Palestinians and their rights, their democratic rights, and so in the 1980s you are right there were some Kurdish people that joined them but they were in the left of Palestinians. I mean all the organisations that were struggling against Israel for democratic rights, for Palestinian rights, they were leftist, but now we are talking about Hamas. Because of that I said Hamas is not representing the Palestinians.
And of course still we are trying to have relations with those leftist groups and organisations of the Palestinians, but of course they are weak, that’s a shame and it’s a big loss for the Palestinians. To have Hamas representing them which is why we cannot deal with them at all because as I said it’s the same mentality as Daesh. All they are doing is not for the Palestinian rights. What they are trying to do, to establish the Islamic State or Islamic Caliphate, whatever it is, and this is their aim so this completely different situation, I mean between the 1980s and now. I mean we support the Palestinian democratic rights for them, but not in the way of Hamas.
While Israel has been waging its war in Gaza, the Erdoğan regime has been continuing its bombing raids of North and East Syria, killing people and also destroying infrastructure. How serious is this problem?
The aim of Turkey is to evacuate these places to have these lands without the Kurdish people and even the components which they have slaughtered them at the beginning of the 20th century like Syriacs and others to get rid of them, to finish them. This is their aim and of course what they have done is a war crime and even crimes against humanity and which they are, I mean, Erdoğan is saying for the Israelis how they are attacking Gaza, but he is doing the same for the Kurdish people in our areas, but nobody is blaming them, it’s really this contradiction, I mean, how you blame something for the Israelis which is right, I mean, it shouldn’t be, and you are doing the same for the Kurdish people and everybody is silent.
Of course I mean they have destroyed all the infrastructures and the oil facilities and the gas facilities and electrical stations and now most of the areas are without electricity now and even without gas, we have difficulties in trying to import the gas from Iraq or from some other places and even the diesel is a big problem for us. So what we have now is the winter season so we cannot get any fuel for heating the houses, heating the places, so it’s a very difficult situation really and as you know if there is no electricity maybe the bakery cannot work or others cannot work so we have a very difficult situation and this is what Turkey wants. Turkey is trying to make it very difficult for people to live in this area.
In January, the Autonomous Administration in North and East Syria marked its 10th year of operation, a new social contract was adopted and a new name was adopted. Can you explain the significance of this development?
Well there are two points. The first of all I mean we consider the conflict happen in Syria is because of the oldest regime which is what was a dictatorship and despotic regime and refusing any identity for the components of Syria and even for the Kurdish people, for Syriacs, for all the components. When you consider that Syria is Arabic and the regime should do everything and they should control everything, so this was their mentality. And the alternative for that was the democratic nation where all the people can live together and so on, what you know in our democratic solution for Syria and for this one. This is for the first point, I mean we cannot implement the model which has destroyed Syria and it was a cause for destroying Syria. So we have to try another model to be convenient for everybody to live in peace.
This is one point and the second point, when we started to struggle against the regime, asking for our demands for democracy and peace for all the Syrian people, of course we were in the 19th of July 2012, we were able to liberate our areas from the regime and then there was a kind of vacation I mean because you need the administration you need to do something with those people so we have established the administration democratic self administration and this democratic self administration, we didn’t like to be like before so it was that, I mean we were forced to do something to fill this vacuum to administer our relations. So this was the case, I mean, two points, one is we don’t wanted to return to the old regimes practice and the second one because there was a vacuum we have to fill it.
Now while the war in Gaza has been going on the Turkish state has continued to attack North and East Syria. What has been the response of the Assad regime to these attacks?
Well I think they were struggling to protect themselves I mean from the attacks and by support of Russians and Iranians and now they are not able to decide for themselves, they are just doing what is asked from them and there were Iranians, they helped them, and then Russians helped them they make them to stand in their places and now they are trying Turkey to make some relations with them and because of that I think they don’t, they are not able to take their decisions by themselves, so they don’t have their willings in their hand and of course I mean our Administration, from many times maybe since 2015 and so, we were trying to knock on their doors to have a dialogue for solution for all of Syria, not for only for ours, and they said no. I mean, the last one maybe it was one year before, they are still insisting we surrender to them and then they will decide what to do which is not acceptable by our people, I mean because we have tens of thousands of martyrs defending these rights. So it’s not easy for us to surrender to the Syrian regime which is very weak.
What we see and some times we contact some people coming from their areas is a very difficult situation, there is no stability and they are of course economically they are in a very very bad situation and they don’t have any budget or anything and there are bribes and so on, and so it’s a very difficult situation of course. I mean we have now about one million people which have escaped from the other areas living in our areas but they cannot live, I mean, that place they are in is hell really and of course maybe only the military and the others which they are getting their salaries from those drug trafficking or something different, but as a nation, as a state, they don’t have anything, power and even the military is very weak, they cannot do anything so it’s a very bad situation.
I mean it could not be compared with what we have here. About one month ago we were able to issue our social contract which is very very democratic and the relations between the components and so, for democratic cases for the people, for freedoms and even for women rights, according to this experience and so we modified it to very detailed things, I mean, for the management, for the governance, and for the human rights and it’s two sides, I mean what our society needs is in it included and of course in accordance with all the international agreements and resolutions by the United Nations and so is a kind of complete constitution for our areas but not an ordinary constitution so it’s something different and of course I mean mainly for the women rights and so it has very very good things.
Well thank you Saleh Muslim for this very interesting interview and we express our ongoing solidarity for the Rojava Revolution and we hope that your liberation struggle sets an example for other liberation struggles in the region.